If Pat Archbold and Susan Douglas were forced to have dinner together and for convenience sake chose to discuss the readings we read I’m positive they would have an argument. Pat says that “pretty” is dying because women no longer aspire to publicly project an air of innocence. This combined with their own beauty serves as his definition of pretty for his post. Pat goes on to say that they would rather view themselves as hot instead of pretty which affects how men see them. He claims that pretty inspires men’s nobler instincts to protect and defend. That pretty is cherished and hotness is a temporary commodity. He recognizes that men play a role but doesn’t explain any further then saying that men prefer pretty over hot. I think that he’s generalizing too much here. It very much depends on what kind of group of guys your talking to. Men value it differently depending on if the men in question are in a relationship and how old they are and the type of people they grew up with, etc. Pat also says that women should just know better.
Susan might agree with him that hotness is valued a lot more in todays society and that women that are trying to look hot are looked upon differently by men then if they were trying to look “pretty”. She might also agree that after decades of women’s liberation women have become a commodity. I can see her agreeing that pretty is dying to an extent but the reason behind it is not women just needing to “know better”. Which is where I can see them arguing the most. Pat in a round about way says it’s more women’s fault how they now value hotness over pretty. Susan says its a combination of the media, advertising, the bush administration, enlightened sexism, and even feminism that has caused this gap between the old generations values and the new one with its’ illusion of power. Susan would say it isn’t as simple as women needing to know better that Pat should look at how the media makes it look like women have done it that they are at last equal with men but on the other hand networks like MTV will show numerous reality shows displaying women jumping on trampolines in bikinis in front of stupid looking men because they can. They have the right. Advertising also has created and continues to perpetuate the idea that women can achieve this new ideal look by paying for cosmetics and surgeries. She says that this enlightened sexism is undoing the feminist movement by making women feel like they can have it all. Equal rights, sexuality, beauty, all the while having fun but at the cost of self esteem. Susan wants something to be done about it. That something starts with laughter. Pat just wants pretty back. Which in his opinion means women valuing innocence like in the older days I guess.
I really enjoyed reading your blog post, John. You gave very good insight on the matter of the two authors discussing a “hot” topic, in their opinion, over dinner. I would have to agree that an argument would arise within their dialogue though. Both authors point out that women are not coming across as innocent or pretty anymore. Pencil thin with popping “features” is what women strive for instead. While both authors discuss the same problem they have with women in present day; the problem they have with women would be the start of their disagreements. One author believes that women themselves are the cause of a dying pretty, and should know not to subject themselves to only being “hot.” The other author believes that media is the cause. I personally believe it is a combination of ignorant, low self-esteemed women and the media that’s causing pretty to die. It’s bad enough for a woman to have low-esteem; but the pressures of the media making it seem like s woman has to be this Barbie-type figure drives the woman to have false images of what they should look like. On the other hand, some women can use the media’s image of a woman as motivation to better themselves. By using the media as a positive thing, the woman can find the balance between being pretty and being “hot.” In many cases though, the balance between pretty and “hot” is never achieved. It’s really sad to see and I hope there can be a change.
ReplyDeleteJohn, I really enjoyed your post. You summed up everything perfectly. I agree that there would be an argument between Douglas and Susan. As a woman, I can totally see what you were trying the relay. The concept of pretty is becoming a vaguer concept. Pretty is looked upon as only being for the innocent or young. Women nowadays are looking to accomplish the “dangerous” or “bombshell” look. Susan says that hotness is valued more than being pretty. Our society primarily focuses on whoever we can please for the night versus the man we want to please for the rest of our lives. These two men are completely different. The “man of the night” is more likely to capture a woman’s body while the man women look to please for the rest of her life tends to have more in common with her and captures and enchants her mind. Low self-esteem in women is encouraged by the media. The constant need to be pencil thin is one most women fall victim to. I, myself, have had that struggle in the past. But let’s face it, not all women are built the same. I have realized that being healthy is more beautiful than starving yourself to fit a particular image to please others. It’s up to the individual to determine if they are going to fall victim to the mainstream idea of beautiful or to define yourself and make your own definition of beautiful. Beauty shouldn’t be solely based upon an individual’s appearance, rather than the individual themselves.
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ReplyDeleteJohn, I completely agree with what you’ve said in your blog. There’s no doubt that there would be some sort of an agreement between the two seeing that while they both have very similar views on women and beauty, parts of their arguments clash, which I think you’ve explained fairly well. I agree that the reason behind pretty dying differs in the eyes of the two authors and this would be where an argument would arise, however, I feel that in this case Susan would win the argument. If Pat were to take a look at Susan’s work, it’s possible that he might become more open minded to Susan’s idea that there is more to pretty dying than that women should just know better than to submit to what men want. Pat makes a very good argument about the difference between pretty and hot that I feel is important, however, I feel he only seeks one cause of the problem and does not look at the big picture. Susan on the other hand seeks out many different problems and brings up many different subjects that pertain to the issue, such as feminism, power, sexuality and beauty, as well as enlightened sexism. Pat’s argument is a simply “bring back the pretty” while Susan’s is much more complex. I feel Pat would begin to argue the cause of the death of pretty but would soon see that there might be more to his idea than her originally thought, in which case he would agree with Susan. If the two were to come to an agreement and combine their views and ideas, I feel that they would have an unbeatable argument about the notion of women and beauty.
ReplyDeleteJohn, I completely agree with your blog post. If these two authors were to have dinner together, an argument would arise for sure. I think you did a great job showing both authors opinions and how they would clash, as well as providing a great summary. Both authors have similar views on this topic, but at the same time they have major differences. Women's appearances and body images in advertisements are often admired and sought after by women because it is believed to be "hot" or "pretty." When in reality, Americans are oblivious to the fact that ads that women see are tampered with and airbrushed to make these women who are idolized appear perfect. Without a doubt the media has an effect on women's low self-esteem. Women are presented with unattainable images in the media that set an unrealistic standard of how women are supposed to look, leading to body image issues. I think if these two authors were to have an argument, that Susan would win without a doubt. She doesn't focus on one problem, but draws attention to several different issues when it comes to this topic such as sexism, beauty, etc. Not saying that Pat didn't make a valid point, but just agreeing more so with Susan's argument because she focuses on the bigger picture, rather than just one single issue. I think if this argument were to happen, that Pat would begin to see Susan's point and eventually agree with here when he sees that she seeks out more issues than just one.
ReplyDeleteThis post, to put it simply, was great. I think you accurately described both view points, and even gave a little insight of your own that I can agree with. I agree that they would come to some disagreements, yet maybe after further discussion come to the idea that in some ways they are arguing for the same thing. My question after reading both, is why does feminism have to have a look? Which I think essentially is Douglas' point. She indeed focuses on the bigger picture about how there are all types and forms of feminism; some point argue against each other, and some for each other, and some just offer a different viewpoint. Pat just simply goes in to one aspect of feminism and women objectification that we have today, then addressing on how the media as a whole is wishy-washy about what they think a real women should do, say, etc. In retrospect, women were encouraged to assume the roles of men, and to stand up for themselves. However, now it assumed that some have taken it too far in terms of, how Douglas said they're "men-hating, child-loathers," etc. I think Douglas kind of goes all over the place about her ideas, while Pat simple argues one aspect of it. She just wants women to understand that it is not only important to be hot, but to preserve some innocence. So in agreement with you, I'd definitely say that they both value the idea of women, just want something different from them.
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